New class?

[dirttracker2]

I was reading on Kam raceway webite that they are getting a new class for the older cars. With the 750's class slowing disappearing and some older cars starting to pop up would it be benificial for Jayhuskers to do the same? I am just wondering if that would make it a level playing field for all. I was at Beloit and it just looks to me like their is a lot of money being spent on some cars and there is a group that just wants to go out and have fun. This is just my point of view.

Thanks,
Debra

[minisprinter413]

if you want to see what they are talking about go to kamraceway.org and click on new class. you can see what kam is trying to do anyways. we were there last week and there was only a couple of cars that showed up so we just ran with the ragular 600's

[dfritz]

Another thought:

With cost being a deciding point for a number of people, could we take a lesson from the "Hornets (4-cylinder cars).

Thoughts on a class where the claim is $5,000 for the whole car race ready except the seat and belts.

750 or 600 makes no difference. A person must sell the car or go to the appropriate class above them.

dfritz

[tbeeemer]

What are the rules for the regular 600s at KAM? Wings? Run what ya brung?

[dirttracker2]

What are the rules for the regular 600s at KAM? Wings? Run what ya brung?
I am pretty sure they just run the 10sq wings. My understanding is they have a true outlaw class. You can have as nice as car as you want. In Jayhusker you can only have one in car adjustment and the baddest motor on the planet. That to me isn't a true outlaw class. Please feel free to add on to my thoughts. If somebody doesn't agree with me don't hold back. I just think that if some changes aren't made we are going to start losing 600's alike we lost 750's. I don't have the answer just getting the thought in everybody head we may need to make some changes soon. Thank You.

[dfritz]

Hastings runs 600's and 619's, any wing, spec 50 right rear tire.

Pretty much an on your honor class and show that works very well.

I wish JayHuskers would use the one tire rule. Helps in inventory of what to have on hand.

dfritz

[Brian Williams]

I personally think Jayhusker should look at what other tracks are doing. If Jayhusker would get another class going now maybe it wouldn't detour other drivers from coming to run with us. I think if there isn't a change made soon people will lose interest and the 600's may get like the 750 class. I just think they need to split the class into outlaw and stock or run a class for the guys that just want to compete and have fun and don't want to have to go buy new cars every couple of years. I am not trying to offend the 750 in anyway.I don't think being able to claim somebody car is right answer but I do agree something needs to change.

[todle]

What does everyone think about using the rules they use at the Tulsa Shootout for A Class cars? Seems to be a popular class. I know right now I'm using a NON-Spec right rear and that sucker bites alot better than the NMMA Spec tire I ran once last year. Of course the biggest problem with any rule is having the man power and knowledge to enforce it. I do agree though we need to do all we can in the future to keep the car and motor cost down with the increase in operating costs.

[luckyballer]

History Lesson of the Day.

I remember when the SOL team first started up in late 90's and into 2000. Jayhusker had an A class and the Multi class. The 600's combined had approximately 30-40 cars. That was enough to usually field 2 almost full A features. In those days there were actually quite a few guys that were running stock R6's and switching between the two classes. Most of the time you would have the same car winning both classes with a stock motor (Galusha, Grabowski, Jurgens to name a few). Some of the drivers were getting frustrated that they were getting beat by stock motors and quite coming. Then the fans were wondering why we were running two races of what appears to be the same cars with only 10-13 in each feature. I think it would be great if you had about 40-50 cars then you could split the cars up into possible a non wing class and a winged class. The key is to have equally full fields of both cars. I think most fans want to see more cars with more passing. Right now, we have enough 600 cars to put on a really good show in 1 class. Having a B feature is great because it makes you earn your spot in the A feature. As far as cost annalysis goes, I think passing the rule to allow only 1 cockpit adjustable feature in the car was key in keeping potential expenses down. If you had four cockpit adjustable shocks and a wing slider you would have around $1800 invested. Horsepower can only take you so far, the rest is up to the driver and the ever important ability to read the track and set the car up for the driver's style every race. You can win with a stock motor just ask some of our past points champions. Another problem you would run into with anything stock is needing a strict tech commitee that is willing to inspect the cars. You have a lot of time and energy consumed in the teching of stock motors. The rules now are easy to check and easy to enforce. Let's not be like the NMMA and have 5 600 classes with 5 sets of rules with 10 cars in each class. See where it took them. Let's put on a full fielded show and treat the fans to a great show. Just curious, anybody know how many cars they run in each class at Kam and Wavelink.

Just for thought
Brandon Lucking #81

Sorry about the essay.

[minisprinter413]

sorry to intrude on your essay brandon but i know what kind of money Grabouski had in his motors on his 600 and it was not stock. what kam is trying to do is get some of the older 600s out of the back yard and run them. the chassis has to be 98 or older and the motor has to be 98 or older you can run flatslides. but they said at the pit meating on friday night that it has to be a stock f3 honda. it does not say that on the internet but that is what they said in the pit meating. i know there are some older chassis out there cause all you see on the internet for sale is 2000 and newer you rarely ever see anychassis older than a 2000. right now kam only has about 6 cars interested in the new class. we whent last friday to run it and there were only 2 of us that were there so we ran with the regular 600s. there were about 18 cars there plus 6 restrictors that ran on there own. those are the only two classes that kam runs right now. and just for thought if people dont have big motors in there cars with jayhusker put like a $1100 claim on them that is about what you can buy a stock r6 of the internet for that just came out of a bike. if i made anybody mad im sorry just my thoughts on the whole deal

[07 Henderson]

If you can buy a 1100 $ r6 off of the internet show me because i just blew one up and i can not find for under 1800$ that a big diffrents
I personaly would like to see two classes a non wing with a spec rr say a d 35 why not

[Brian Williams]

Why didn't you make those changes? LOL Until everybody voices their opinion nothing will change. I just want to see the cost not get out of hand to be competitive.Come on TYLER you have the big bucks we know.

[minisprinter413]

ok tyler im sorry in 5 minutes of looking the cheapest one i found is $1500 but that is a big differance than the one i found for almost $6000 and that is what i am trying to say is the people with lets say $2000 or less in there motors and older cars are probably tierd of getting there butts kicked and after a while just give up trying. like brandon said there used to be 30 or 40 600s and they ran two classes no there is about 18 on a regular bassis i realise some people move up and so on but there are a lot that just park them cause they dont have the money to be competitive anymore and just park there cars. and i would like to see those people to be able to race and have the ability to win a race or two not just go out and make laps. and i did not put that first line in there to be a smart ass.

[dirttracker2]

Jayhusker use to have 30 to 40 cars in a class. Do you think maybe the cost of running against the high dollar cars had anything to do with the decline in cars. I may be wrong and I hope I am because I enjoy the jayhusker series and KAM and all the open wheel series but I honestly think if something isn't done to make more than one class and get the " high dollar cars" and the guys just wanting to have fun the series will be in a world of hurt soon. I don't blame the guys that are getting the years on their cars to gracefully bow out because their cars aren't competitive anymore. Why not give them a class to run the older cars. I don't understand why a lot of people are against another class. I think the ones that oppose it the most are the ones that have the big money cars and it makes them look better. I hope I am wrong but I can see a lot of cars disappearing in the next couple of years and not being replaced. Going from 30 to 40 then down to 18 to 25 on an average night where do you suppose the holder cars have gone. I am just comparing the 600's to the 750's who would have thought their # would be down.Please feel free to let me know your input.

[Seth Eubanks]

The easiest way to equal out the high dollar motors with the stock motors is to run non wing. Running non wing takes most of the motor out of the picture, which leaves it up to set up and the driver. Quit whining about what everyone else has and beat them with what you got.

[todle]

I've got it. I'll build a spec motor for $3000, everyone has to run my motors which will all be the same except for mine of course which will be nasty, that way I can get rich and win all the races. That of course was a joke. I can't take my valve covers off let alone build a motor.

Seriously I think the non-wing thing is not a bad idea. Only bad thing is wings do cushin the blow a little when you land on your head. This is a tough subject one racers have been fighting with since they ran cars in the sand at Daytona. Only thing I've seen work is restrictor plates and hard crappy narrow tires.

[newtomidgets]

Being new to this type of racing I have a few questions regarding the older/newer car debate. I understand that newer cars are more trick and have more setup options, but the basic chassis geometry stays the same. Since we are running small tracks, do the newer cars really have that much of an advantage over some older ones besides the setup factor? I will be running a factor one chassis that was supposedely updated to an 01 car, but I don't know if this is true or not. It has been converted to a coil car all the way around, and was at one time a pavement car. When I showed it to my uncle who used to race sprinters professionally, he said just block it and square it and it will do fine. The motor is a full tilt F3 honda built by FTZ so horsepower shouldn't be a problem, and it really does seem to handle fine. I have another Bailey copy that is probably out of the eighties with a stock F3 and I think on a short track it will be just as fast as the nasty engine in the newer car. Am I totally wrong? We're talking about 1/5 mile tracks here. I heard everyone talk about how big Beloit was, and I doubt that track is 1/4 mile, maybe around the outside it is. Maybe I'll get proven wrong, and I understand people wanting to run a more stock class for the sake of cost, but a good driver in an older coil-over car with a stock engine can be just as fast as anybody on any given night. Hell, I outran 750 triumphs and yamahas on a 125 KTM racing flattrack motorcycles a few years back, and we ran on full 3/8 mile tracks. Even 360 sprint cars can outrun 410s on a slick track. Maybe a rookie class for beginners to run just for trophies for a season before stepping in with the big boys would be a good idea. It would be easy to monitor because if one or two people run away from everybody else you could just move them up to the money class. I only have about 15 laps in my midget, and I'll be in the premiere 600 class this saturday night, so I guess I'll find out for myself soon enough.

[RevHoney]

Personally, I think running an engine claim is a bad idea. My r6 is mostly stock as far as what I understood from Gary. But I sure wouldn't want to race every night wondering if my engine was going to get claimed. Why? The hassle of having to look FOR and put in a new engine. Yeah, it probably wouldn't happen that often that an engine would get claimed but it sure would make me think twice about racing with Jayhusker.
Plus as soon as you get your engine claimed it all of the sudden takes the "low cost" out of racing.

I think 2 classes would be best. One stock, one multi.

[Roger Funk]

For starters I run one of those older 90's EZ chassis w/ a older F-3....What did we have at Beliot 26-28 cars? That was GREAT !!!! But can we get that every night? Does any one know how many 600's we had on a average night last year?(16-18)??? Now devide that into two classes ( how fun does a 8 or 9 car feature sound) not much fun for us or the fans... Just trying to be realistic.. Besides didn't we try this in '02 or '03 a stock class I mean??? Motor claim?? shoot I'd buy a couple of f3's if some one claimed mine...(havent had good luck w/ the R6's) Besides R6's aren't the only motor being run?? (haven't priced them because I'm happy w/ mine and don't really want to open that can of worms) I think the changes we've made to the class w/ 1 cockpit adjuster is good.. as with any racing class it does get more expensive every year (ie. Tires , Alcohol, Wings, Motors, fuel to and from the track and the list goes on & on). There is no way around it. RACING,, Those that can do..& those that can't don't.. I have a very low budget operation and let me tell ya how much I love racing W/ the Jayhuskers......Waverly's Wavlink race track is less than 8 miles from our house, Yet I'd perfer to drive the 2-3 hours to race with you guys. If the class did split don't think I'd go because I wanna race aginst the best drivers & cars....Competiton isn't that what Racing is all about??? Well hope I've not taken up to much of anyones time... Just my thoughts. Roger F. ( don't know why I posted Brandon said it all)

[tefftracing]

I agree 100% with seth and brandon

[Nate]

I also agree with seth, brandon, and teft. racing is racing guys. it's competitive and that's why we do it. i love racing with the jayhuskers. the jayhuskers draw a decent car count and the racers are a good group of people. i don't know who you are all talking about but i have a good idea. and if you look at last years overall standings i would say that 4 or 5 of the cars that you are so worried about were out of the top 5 in the points. we don't come to jayhusker races every weekend and we don't run for points. we go because we like the tracks and the people. all i can say is if you want to change all the rules watch out for whose toes you step on. if you make too many and too strict of rules you will also lose car count. anyway look at last saturday night, a rookie won the main and he had a hell of a good run. it sure didn't seem like he was to worried about who he had to race with. he went out and did what he had to do to his car and didn't worry about everyone else. great job Nate (Brown).

Nate #16

[RevHoney]

Nate Flemming said it perfectly. This is just my opinion but if you got into racing for a low dollar sport/hobby then your probably not in the right sport. If you got into racing for a low competition sport then your probably in the wrong sport.
I am sorry if that steps on toes but its the truth.
If you want to race a lower dollar class then race a truck like I did last year. Thats the exact reason why we have the truck class...low dollar.

My dad and I were talking this "new class" thing over today and we came up with this thought. If you want to make a "lower dollar" or bring back the oldies class why dont you combine the 750's and this new class? I have heard a could 750 drives say they could keep up with the 600's. I would especially think they could keep up with low dollar 600's or the older 600's (lets say 98 and older like kam's). This would then make the "750 class" bigger and give a better show...and may even save the 750's all together.
I dont know how the 750's feel about it but it was a thought.
I think it could be a good idea to start up this "new class" but I think downgrading or making the 600's too strict will have a good chance of making the 600's fall apart.

In my opinion, having 5 classes is almost too many. Makes for a late night.
3 class is almost too few. 4 classes seems perfect. Of course on any given night things can change how fast things go.

Just my 2 cents.
Nate Brown

[Roger Funk]

I think thats some good thinkin Nate B. The 750's could stand to have a few more cars in the class ( if they would agree to do it ? ). I could do it but woln't .. I like the level of racing we have in the 600 class. But if this does happen and we do lose a large number of cars to the new class Then what? ( I don't know how many older cars we have running with us.) Just a thought. Don't get me wrong I want to see good strong classes, But don't want to rob peter to pay paul. ( in a since)..

[Brian Williams]

There is no reason why Nate's idea won't work. That would be a good way to cure the problem.